On March 16, 2017, senior fellow and House of Bhutto member, Daniel Roque, sat down to interview four junior Under A Tree fellows. What follows is a transcript of the discussion--an open, honest, and thoughtful look behind the scenes of Under A Tree.
What stands out? Where do we go from here? What comes next for them and for the organization? Find out here!
Tabitha (Tabi) Cherubin | Jhanae Douglas | Nicholas (Nick) Mijares | Shada Thykandy
House of Blanchard | House of Bhutto | House of Suu Kyi| House of Socrates
1. What are some things you like to do, your interests?
Jhanae: I like to sing, I like photography, and I like reading.
Tabi: I like art, I like working on art, just anything that has to do with art.
Shada: I like reading, writing, and watching TV.
Nick: Yeah, I like to watch TV, listen to music, and filmmaking is something I really like to do.
2. Which world issues are you most passionate about?
Nick: The gender issues from around the world and how they’re strongly rooted in culture, and how the issues are so diverse all over the world and it seems like solutions are so limited in certain areas.
Daniel: So then how do you think society can improve in terms of these gender issues?
Nick: Well, that’s a very difficult question. I don’t know for sure all the ways we can improve but educating people is the first step to solving any kind of problem, as long as you increase awareness, because they may not be able to do anything about it. But as long as they don’t neglect the issues or ignore them completely then you’re making at least some progress.
Shada: I feel like discrimination and the categorization of people in certain ways, like stereotypes, because of their particular race or religion, like seeing someone who’s black and automatically characterizing them as a criminal or seeing someone who’s Muslim and automatically characterizing them as a terrorist, that’s a major problem. If we can combat xenophobia and ignorance and bigotry, I feel like that is a major step forward in almost every issue.
Tabi: I think, for me, it would definitely be race, because it’s something that’s so close to home and it’s something that, being a person that is black, is something that I have to deal with on an everyday basis. And like Nick was saying, one of the major issues with race is that, because racism looks so different than it did before, I feel like a lot of people fail to acknowledge the fact that some of the ideas that they hold may be surrounded by these racist ideas that have been set years before. So I think first acknowledging the fact that we may hold some racist views is one of the main things we need to do.
Jhanae: Mine is pretty similar. Race relations, in the US, especially since we don’t educate people, there are things that have come off of racism that are very present. LIke, as I was researching colorism, I saw that came off of racism and then stayed, and people don’t acknowledge that it’s essentially racism...it’s just a different mask for racism.
3. What drew you to UAT?
Jhanae: Originally it was Kyle ('16 Alumnus) who was like “Oh you have to do it, I’m making you do it.” So I signed up, but then I read what the fellowship was about, like having a conversation about things we don’t get to have conversations about I feel is so important because you may talk about these issues on occasion but being in a group in which the sole thing you’re talking about is these issues, I think that’s what drew me to it, because I didn't get to have those conversations on a daily basis, and now I can.
Tabi: I think for me what really drew me was Danny (Meyer). My sister was in it last year and the way she would describe Danny was as like this charismatic and intelligent guy, and when she described what the fellowship does I thought that would be really cool to be a part of.
Shada: I think the first people who told me about UAT were Maria and Sabrina ('16 Alumni), and they told me I’d be a good candidate and that I needed to join this club. And at first when I was recruited for it I heard about the things they talk about, like Jhanae said, they’re things you never get to talk about at school, like religion and race and real issues that just aren't addressed by our standardized curriculum, and I thought that having the opportunity to explore that outside of school would be really cool, especially being in an environment where everyone's open and accepting. That’s hard to find anywhere else.
Nick: For me it was seeing everyone’s capstones last year, like the one about consent, and I saw on social media all the different projects that they were doing and I wanted to be a part of it. And so I remember going on the website last year and reading through all the capstones and I decided I definitely wanted to apply for it next year. And then my friends this year like Kelechi told me I should apply, so I’d already heard of it before and I was interested, and they just gave me that extra push to actually go for it.
4. What has stood out about your experience in UAT?
Shada: Personally, an experience that's stood out to me was being able to co-facilitate a session. A lot of the time you sit in and you listen as a fellow, which is very valuable, but when you have the ability to talk about your issues and you have a hand in being able to shape what everyone hears and the content, I feel like that's a very special experience and I enjoyed it, I would love to do it again.
Tabi: Kind of going back to what Jhanae was saying, being able to have a conversation on a regular basis about really important topics that we all experience in some way, we don't usually get that, so being able to be a part of something where people for the most part hold similar values and ideas as I do, that's really refreshing to be able to have those conversations
Jhanae: Something that stood out to me was when we did "The Race," like, that got really emotional really quickly. It was a lot, but it was an important conversation to have, and once you acknowledge white privilege or the comparative disadvantage that many people place because white privilege exists. When you have those conversations you get a better look at the world, and I think you acknowledge people more in a different way.
Nick: For me, an impactful part of the fellowship was what we considered in the religion unit, which has always been a major conflict in my life and I've never been able to really find the balance that I needed, and think talking about it makes you a lot more open-minded about it and helps you see that things aren't in black and white. There are different routes that you can take that'll make you happy, and being able to explore that, because there aren't a lot of people or places that you can go to to talk about things like this, and so being able to find yourself through it, I think that's a big factor in building your own personal identity. And that's something that I've found nowhere else.
5. What subject or topics so far have you enjoyed discussing the most? What are you still most looking forward to discussing?
Tabi: I think race. I feel like with the issue there are so many layers and different things that make up the issue, and it's not just black and white, and the thing that I'm really looking forward to would be gender roles--discussing that and their effects on society.
Jhanae: Mine is race as well because, like Tabi said, there are so many layers to the issues and it's still such an important issue. We're still trying to have this conversation on race and we haven't managed to flush it out, so that's what I've enjoyed talking about the most this year. And I also look forward to the unit on gender roles.
Nick: I'm looking forward to the same thing, gender roles and sexuality because I feel like that's something that almost never gets touched on besides a very minimal overview that we get in school, so I think that's something we still need to make progress in, through legislation too, and like with race, there's still unfairness and disadvantages, so I think that's a huge problem and I look forward to discussing. It should be really interesting.
Shada: The topic I've enjoyed the most so far has been religion, because, like Nick said, you see all these perspectives, and at home you're not actually exposed or given much choice in what you learn about and choose, but in an environment where everyone is open-minded and talking in a rational manner, I think that allows you to think more broadly. And I'm also looking forward to talking about gender roles because I feel like, especially now in 2017, there's so much homophobia and gay rights is such a current issue, so I feel like being able to discuss that is very important to do.
Tabi: What I think is so important about talking about all these different things is that they're still so prevalent in our society, none of them have really gone away, whether it be stereotypes or racism or gender discrimination, so I think the relevance makes this discussion so important to our society.
6. What topics or interactions have made you reflect most about your own view on things? What conversations or activities have made you most uncomfortable or most challenged you to look at an issue from a different perspective (even if your mind didn’t change)?
Daniel: So pretty much what topics have clashed with your previously held beliefs and how has that affected you?
Nick: The most eye-opening activity for me was "The Race," like, I’d always known racial issues were big problems, but I hadn’t really recognized the severity of it and I’d always brushed it aside like “We’re not living in the past anymore; there have definitely been improvements," but I think really seeing the depth of it and seeing that these problems still exist and that, like Jhanae said, they’re under different masks now, I think it’s extremely important for us to know. And that specifically I had known that we all have our disadvantages based on our ethnicity or color, like there are things beyond us that we may not know about each other, and I think doing that activity and seeing what everyone else has gone through, that’s something we never really acknowledge besides in that activity. And that we weren’t only talking about our differences but physically seeing them I think made it even scarier but at the same time it’s crucial for us to understand.
Shada: For me something that made me reflect deeply was the discussion of the concept of the soul and when it was formed or where it is like does it reside inside you, I’d always thought it was like a spirit inside you but when I heard people talking about abortion specifically and when the soul is really formed, it was something that kind of clashed with the biology of it all, and it’s something that I still don’t really have an answer to...something that’s always going to be contested everywhere: when does life really begin, not just by logic but when is your soul born? That was something that I still think about, it’s crazy.
Tabi: I think the same thing as Shada, like the discussion on the formation of the soul is one thing that left me reflecting. It’s not something that there’s really a definite answer to but it is based heavily on your beliefs so it makes you consider them. I think, for the most part, the topics haven’t contrasted that heavily with my views...many of them have actually strengthened and reaffirmed them.
7. Many of us struggle with a sense of paralysis in the face of insurmountable social and political problems. What is your recommendation for people who want to be more aware and active but also don't want to lose themselves to bitterness, resentment, or hopelessness?
Tabi: I think with that question it has to do with your own personal experiences. Like, I know with the race, I would say that the majority of black people were more towards the back, and it reminded me that even though black people have been through so much adversity, they’ve come so far. So, I think seeing all the oppression and discrimination that black people have to deal with on an everyday basis, seeing how far they’ve come is something that’s made me proud and not want to give up, no matter what challenge we face.
Jhanae: People wonder what they can do if there are x amount of problems in the world, like looking at the war in Syria, you have people like the White Helmets, and they go out and it’s a lot, you see people and their families dying every day, but you can’t be sad and think you can’t do anything, there’s always something that you can do. And even though the overall problem may not be fixed, you contributed to helping it be solved in some way.
Tabi: I think a lot of those problems like the ones that we discussed, as optimistic as I can be, I know these things aren’t going away and that as long as humans are around there will always be discrimination and oppression whether it be based on race or religion or gender, so although there may not be one big solution that would just end the problem, I think there are little things we can do here and there.
Nick: Yeah I completely agree. I have to remind myself that the world is never going to be a perfect place. There’s always going to be some form of conflict, but then you also have to remember that discord is what leads to progress.You need to have some sort of disagreement if you’re going to make a change or if there’s ever going to be a route to improvement. The minute we all agree that everything is okay, that’s when the problems begin...when there is no disagreement or there is no push for change.
Tabi: Yeah, sometimes conflict is necessary to make change. The most important changes in history have come from disagreement, argument, and sometimes even violence. This is what makes people see the issues as important and take them seriously.
Shada: I think it takes a certain level of maturity to be able to understand and accept these problems. Being afraid of the fact that it might be sad to recognize these things shouldn’t mean you should turn a blind eye to them. Being able to recognize the problem is like half of solving it. I feel like if you have mutual cooperation, you can overcome.
8. What do you think UAT has to offer to the fellows of next year?
Jhanae: It offers them the same thing it offered me: a place to talk about problems that I see happening in the world, and I think it’s a safe place to be open and discuss things intellectually and respectfully with other people who may differ from your point of view.
Tabi: I feel that the school we go to, in particular, fails to have these important discussions with the students. So I feel like it would be really nice for next year’s fellows to have a place where they can have these conversations and talk about things that they may not be at home or at school.
Shada: I really believe it’s like an open forum for discussion where you don’t have to be afraid or hold back what you want to say because you know that you’ve heard that other people might think the same thing as you. At school and at home you might keep those things in and you might never know that people actually feel the same way you do. The fellows will benefit from a lot from open discussion, and it may come as a shock at first that these kinds of discussions can even happen, but once you get used to it I feel like it’s such a great experience.
Nick: Yeah, UAT for me is a safe space for talking about what concerns me or what concerns other people and the way I can educate myself on those things, but at the same time I think it’s going to offer them answers. For me there were so many questions beforehand...like, who am I to talk about this? What authority do I have like I don’t know anything about this? And the fact that we’re being introduced to those topics, it’s going to give us a nice foundation for when we do get asked those questions in the future. It gives us the security we need to speak about certain things.
9.. What advice do you have for people who want to join the fellowship next year?
Nick: My advice would be to not feel intimidated or that you have to be super-smart to be able to contribute to our conversations. The point of it is to not show everything that you know but to show what you learn from it, so even if you’re not that educated, that’s the point, please apply so that way you can be informed so that you can get there.
Shada: Yeah, I agree with Nick. A major problem that a lot of people struggle with is that they don’t know what’s the right time to give their input or might think that what they have to say isn’t that smart. But if you value your input then others will also value your input. Also, try to make it to meetings, the more meetings you go to, the more exposure you get and you may miss a topic that you would’ve really enjoyed talking about.
Tabi: Yeah, the same thing as what Shada said. Try to make it to as many meetings as you can, like I know, me personally, I was kind of bad with that at the beginning of the year but as I started going to more and more I just realized that the meetings add just a little something extra to your day, it’s nice to be able to talk about those important topics. I also think that you should try to give your input as much as possible, sometimes people are nervous or they feel like they’ll sound stupid but I think that each opinion and contribution adds value to the discussion.
Jhanae: I would say to come with an open mind. You’re going to meet people with starkly different opinions and it’s going to seem a little bit jarring at first because you’re going to be like “I’m not really feeling them.” You may not acknowledge what they have to say, but everyone has something important to say.
10. What do you think UAT has the potential to become?
Shada: I think UAT will and should branch out, like other schools can adopt the UAT program that was originally founded by Danny and replicate the things we do. I feel like that would help so many students like every school that you would add would have so many more students and minds that are exposed to these critical issues, and I feel like it could become statewide or nationwide and it could become a movement, it would be of great value to everyone’s education.
Tabi: I agree with Shada. I think that it would be awesome for UAT to branch out and go to different schools so that different kids have the opportunity to be in a program where they’d be able to express their beliefs and opinions and learn something new.
Nick: Like a well-known high school organization that kids could apply to like with clubs or other associations that exist.
Jhanae: There are classes at community centers--you could open it up to the community so that everyone gets the opportunity, because some adults may have gone their whole lives without learning about these issues. So, if it opens up to be available to everyone, I think that would be important.
11. Why do you want to keep being a part of and contributing to UAT next year?
Tabi: I think that it’s such an awesome program that I want to be in it for as long as possible, and being able to continue having these discussions and learning more next year and growing--becoming more firm in my beliefs--I think that’s something that I want to do and be a part of next year.
Shada: Another thing I thought is that in some units I didn’t get enough time, I started enjoying it and by that time it was already over, so the fact that we get the chance to go over them again next year, like you can never have a unit for too long because there’s always something to talk about, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to do it a second year. Even if you went through the units this year, going through them as a different person next year with different experiences, you get new perspectives and get to continue growing and changing.
Nick: For me, it’s to keep the conversation going...like, that’s something that should never stop happening; you should always continue the discussion. But I’m also interested in what it’s all like from the perspective of a mentor or someone who’s still there, I want to see others grow from a different standpoint. This year we are the fellows, and Danny and the mentors get to see us change. I’m interested in how that feels or what it looks like to see these people grow and really become aware of these issues.
Jhanae: Yeah, like what Nick said, because I would like to become a mentor and help facilitate someone else’s growth in all of these issues and see how they change or don't’ change over the course of the units.
Tabi: I think that, like Nick said, you can never have these conversations enough because there’s always something new to talk about or add in, so it would be really nice to be able to continue those discussions.